In the online war of words between representatives of Thailand’s various cultural groups (sexpats, expats, students, teachers, businessmen, hi-sos, etc), there’s never a shortage of interesting wordplay to read through. I’ve written about this before, but the one piece of advice I give to prospective expats is to be very selective when boning (heh) up on how Thailand works, simply because there’s so much crap out there that it’s easy to get a very distorted view of the country. The latest salvo in this ongoing battle was written for CNNGo by a friend of mine, and is causing quite a little uproar. Well, I’m here to defend him… sort of.
Cod Satrusayang recently wrote a piece on CNNGo.com entitled “How to Date a Thai Woman in Bangkok“. It’s a pretty blunt take on what dating a Thai woman is all about – almost right away it states:
In general — there are exceptions, of course — the Thai female is a whole other kind of crazy from every other species of woman in the world.
It gets more blunt from there, commenting on how Thai women are demanding, high-maintenance, shallow, materialistic, obtrusive wenches who demand pampering, suck up your personal time, and don’t care if you have a girl(s) on the side so long as you keep buying them stuff. There’s been a lot of “tut, tut”-ing and angry comments, so let me just say right away that Cod’s summation of Thai women is totally unfair and patently false.
Except when it’s true.
I prefer brunettes, but Betty’s so much more likeable.
The epic struggle continues.Now I don’t want to wade into the same bloodbath of online commentary that Cod has, so let me say this: I have many female Thai friends, and the overwhelming majority of them are outrageously smart, fiercely independent, proudly self-sufficient, pretty, down-to-Earth, funny, curious, wonderful people. I’m lucky enough that my girlfriend can also be categorized as such and acts as a very bold counterweight to Cod’s assessment – she respects my space, doesn’t snoop on my phone records (not that there’d be anything to see anyway), treats me as well as I treat her, and would not for a second stand for it if I had a girl on the side (no word on if I had a dude on the side, but I imagine the reaction would be similar). It’s as though Cod has taken my girlfriend (and most of my friends) and written an ill-informed, Machiavellian, anti-summary of their personalities.
HOWEVER!
I have also seen firsthand the exact type of woman that he’s talking about in far greater numbers in Thailand than anywhere else. Indeed, the other night at a Twitter dinner organized by the awesome Thonglor-Ekamai I met a guy new to Thailand who was a bit stunned that my girlfriend would allow me out all evening by myself to a place where there might be girls; he said his missues often secretly follows him (when he’s allowed out along, that is). I once had a friend whose recent ex-girlfriend hid behind a post outside his apartment, then threw a heavy photo frame at him when he returned one night, cutting his cheek (it was a photo of them together, natch). Another one of my friends broke his rib when his girlfriend (later his ex-wife) pushed him off a chair and onto an umbrella stand when he looked at a girl who walked by. Another friend picked a girl up at her apartment and then spent the rest of the night with a very miserable woman when she found out he didn’t have a car. Another friend (mutually) ended a date halfway through when the girl he was with decided that his 2-year old phone was emblematic of his bank account.
Kind of like this, but without the friendly expression.
So, yes, there are shallow, bitchy, whiny – in plain fact, crazy – women in Thailand in greater numbers than I’ve seen anywhere else. Maybe it’s just because my dating experience in Canada can generously be described as slim, maybe it’s the heat, maybe Cod’s just unlucky. But there are also some amazing, driven, smart, normal women here, and that’s maybe what Cod should have put a bit more emphasis on in his article. Or maybe I should just shut up and be thankful I don’t have to deal with separating the wheat from the chaff anymore.
What do you think?
Excellent and very balanced perspective Greg…..To say that Thai women are all this and that sparks of male chauvinism …Women are as different as we are in their choices, likes and dislikes…
We as human beings needs to be treated as individuals with respect not bunch them together painting them with one brush as we see them…this is unfair…How about if someone generalize the same about Thai men or farangs…we are all individuals not Thai or American or Chinese…the same is true with women all over the world..
I read the article after reading your post here…kind of gross, but it doesn't surprise me. The thing is–there are crazy women everywhere, just like there are crazy MEN everywhere. Yeah, why isn't there anything written about the crazy men who do stuff like this? Oh right–because that's called domestic abuse.
Uhhh…not sure where I was going with that. Point is, there are good and bad people everywhere. Go to Missouri and you'll see a lot of women like Cod described. And your girlfriend is lovely–you're a lucky man!
Jack, very true.. when you strip away cultural quirks, I think most people would be startlingly similar. Most, but not all. 🙂
Megan, you're right, if a guy threw a photo album at a girl's head, he'd be a wifebeater (the guy, not even talking about the shirt he was wearing). And yes, good and bad people are everywhere. Canada certainly had its share of doucehbags (I know, right? Crazy!) so this little treatise is only my relatively narrow take on it. Although a similar one from you on Thai men would be epic. Ready? 3, 2, 1, go! 😀
When it comes to Cod, pretty much everyone in our circle knows how I feel. But this was the first time I didn't feel so pissed off reading something written by him. And then also I felt a little bit satisfied that he never got a chance to experience the other kind of Thai girls, the one your girlfriend belongs to. Of course I like your take on the matter better 🙂
The matter is quite plain & simple as some commenters have already mentioned: people are people, good and bad, and yes, women, Thai or otherwise, are people too – not a whole different species. And when you start off with a premise that Thai women aren't like the rest of humankind you've dug yourself a hole. My first comment on Cod's article (made on Twitter) was: if you don't like cookie cutter airheads, then don't keep dating them. I should have added "crazy," "bitchy" and "greedy" in front of "airheads" but they didn't fit in the 140-character space. 🙂 Sure, such women exist, in great or small number I can't say for certain because as far as I know no one has ever done a bitchy-looney-airhead national census in Thailand – or anywhere else for that matter.
All I know is that there are plenty of Thai women who don't fit that type. Thay's why I also told Cod to get himself a pretty, level-headed girl with whom he won't have to pretend being a (rich & slimey) moron to keep her happy. I don't stalk my man. I don't think most of my girlfriends do either but then I never pry or stick my nose in their personal business. The women I count as friends are mostly gainfully employed and aren't preying on men as a potential meal ticket, though I don't think any of them would be affronted if the man turns out to be rich.
Unfortunately Cod's type of article has long been a staple (with slightly varied but consistent themes) on places like Stickman's or Thai Visa. In my view writings along that line often say more about the men who wrote the articles than the Thai women they purport to impart knowledge about.
Nail on head Kaewmala, although I will say that I used to think the phrase "Women (or men) from X country are Y" was ridiculous until I started traveling. While people are people the world over, those from different countries do obviously have their own unique cultural foibles. When filtered through the lens of some of the uh, colorful, stories and lifestyles in a particular region, they may end up simplified as 'All people from X are Y' when it should more properly say "Some people in X country act in Y way because Z."
Or maybe I'm just talking out my ass, which is very likely the case.
Well, we've probably taken this whole article as far as it can possibly go, with all the comments (Hey even Kitty commented on something i wrote) and discussion and witch hunting, so this is the last time I'm going to comment on the issue and it'll be my semi attempt at self defense. When Karla approached me to do the article she said, "write something the boys will love you for and the women will hate." Well a couple threats and potential lynchings later, i think this is more or less done, heck even some men have come up in arms over this. Yes the article is exaggerrated, hyperbolised and probably in bad taste, but hey at the same time its also generated a massive amount of discussion and HITS which is what CNNGo were looking for. What I don't understand are the people making assumptions about my personal life. This article, while exaggerated admittedly, draws on the experience of myself AND others including someone else who has posted on this blog, do I think this is an accurate depiction of all women, HELL NO! And anyone who read that and thought it was maybe needs to read a little harder into the sarcasm. To be quite honest this article probably says worse about Thai men than it does the women but hey thats a point lost on so many people who actually posted on the article. As for myself I feel blessed that the women I date are all smart, intelligent and independent whether THai or foreign. So if you have a problem with the article, great, thats why it was written to offend and generate views. But please stop with the personal assumptions because its almost in as bad a taste as the article.
I see the article as trying to make a point, but I just don't think it makes that point particularly well. I also see little merit in over-analyzing the piece. If it is some kind of social commentary then surely it could have been angled so as to not be such a direct attack on "Bangkok's women" from a "self-described ladies man". Articles like this pop up frequently — I should know because I wrote a couple myself when I was wet behind the ears — and the reactions are always the same. I just feel there are much better ways to take jibes at the status quo than by resorting to sexist generalizations.
But ultimately, there's no need for this to be blown out of proportion.
Great to hear Cod's side of the story on this, and he's right – it's easy to take what someone writes and layer it over them as their personality, when it could be anything but. Lost Boy nails it as well – as writers, taking one tack a bit too far is what we do; it's creative and it's fun, and it rarely speaks towho we are in reality. Just ask any of the stay-at-home Moms who write erotic fiction for Penthouse as a part-time job. 🙂
At any rate, all that can be said has been said, so I think I'll just close the comments now. Thanks for reading, folks.